Join us as we journey through the delicate web of step-parenting with our guest, step-parenting coach Maria Natapov. What does it truly mean to be a step-parent and how can you navigate this dynamic, emotion-filled terrain? Maria sheds light on these questions and provides pragmatic guidance to help you transform family uncertainty into harmonious co-parenting. We'll unpack the layers of challenges from financial to emotional, and discuss how Maria’s expert advice can help ease your transition into this new family dynamic.
Maria delves into the intricacies of becoming a step-parent, emphasizing the significance of good communication and nurturing relationships. Through her insights, we gain a practical understanding of how to blend families effectively, stressing the need for patience and understanding. Listen as she shares anecdotes that encapsulate the realities of sudden changes and the importance of preparation for every possibility. Whether you're a step-parent, a divorced parent, or just looking to understand complex families, this episode offers a comprehensive guide to find your footing in the challenging yet rewarding journey of co-parenting.
Learn more at https://synergisticstepparenting.com
Join us as we journey through the delicate web of step-parenting with our guest, step-parenting coach Maria Natapov. What does it truly mean to be a step-parent and how can you navigate this dynamic, emotion-filled terrain? Maria sheds light on these questions and provides pragmatic guidance to help you transform family uncertainty into harmonious co-parenting. We'll unpack the layers of challenges from financial to emotional, and discuss how Maria’s expert advice can help ease your transition into this new family dynamic.
Maria delves into the intricacies of becoming a step-parent, emphasizing the significance of good communication and nurturing relationships. Through her insights, we gain a practical understanding of how to blend families effectively, stressing the need for patience and understanding. Listen as she shares anecdotes that encapsulate the realities of sudden changes and the importance of preparation for every possibility. Whether you're a step-parent, a divorced parent, or just looking to understand complex families, this episode offers a comprehensive guide to find your footing in the challenging yet rewarding journey of co-parenting.
Learn more at https://synergisticstepparenting.com
Welcome to Mending Fences, a podcast about effective ways to communicate and live with differences. I'm Patrice Bremner.
Speaker 2:And I'm Jen Hawthorne. We're both family law mediators and collaborative law attorneys, but our conversations go well beyond family law. We explore the personal, interpersonal, legal and cultural impact of conflict. Hi and welcome to Mending Fences. I'm Jen Hawthorne-Kelsey, and I am here with Patrice Bremner, as always.
Speaker 1:Hi Jen.
Speaker 2:Hi, patrice. And today we are joined by Maria Natapov, who is a step parenting coach, and she is going to give us some helpful tips and we're going to talk through some different aspects of what it can look like when families become blended. Maria, welcome, welcome, maria, thank you so much.
Speaker 3:It's great to be here. Thank you both.
Speaker 2:So do you want to start out, Maria, by just introducing people to what is step parent coaching for people who have never heard of it before? What does that mean?
Speaker 3:Sure, so really what I do is I help parents who are divorced and also step parents, of course, who are new to the blended family life transform family chaos into harmonious co-parenting. That's in a nutshell how I like to describe it, and, of course, the whole concept of recoupling and establishing a new family, whether you call it a second family, a step family, a blended family a lot of people like to refer that you're never quite blended and that sometimes that's almost. It's almost painful to think of it that way, because many don't ever reach it and some who reach it still feel that it's not a complete blend ever. So there's many different. So if you're in that camp and you're listening, please know you're in good company. It's just a terminology that, for those who may not be as closely familiar with that kind of dynamic, it's just kind of common language and common speak. So that's why I use that terminology.
Speaker 3:So, as one can imagine, going through divorce is an enormously painful experience. It feels like a huge overhaul and upheaval of your entire life. People struggle to find their new identity. Who are they, even if they're not this person's wife and in this particular family? And certainly for the kids it's even more devastating because their whole identity has been with this core family and with this family unit. So it truly and it can be, it could literally feel like their whole world is falling apart because they just don't know life without this family unit, without these two people being together and being their support system. And not to mention let's not forget we're biologically and physiologically wired to want to and need to be with our biological parents, because we're looking to them for that support and comfort and safety and nurture, and so that's. All of those reasons are why, naturally, going through such a painful and really it can often feel a terrible experience can already is kind of devastating in times and already has many, many challenges inherently in that. So just that alone. And then now we're talking about bringing in new people and it could feel like we're being replaced, especially for kids, for example, they can feel like they're being replaced or their other parent is being replaced by this new individual.
Speaker 3:Wrapping their mind around these concepts can be really it's very foreign, it's very new, it's very scary. And what does that mean? Am I ever going to see my other parent again? Right, what is all of this going to look like? So yeah, naturally there's just a lot of fear, a lot of unknowns and a lot of complex layers of emotions. Some may, instantly, we might be able to instantly identify, and some we might not, and sometimes only not until something is said or something is encountered or you one finds themselves in that scenario, do they realize that that's even a painful piece or a challenging piece for them.
Speaker 3:So when we keep all of that in mind and then, of course, like the parents are still bearing the brunt of the emotional, financial, logistical load of navigating this new dynamic, this new situation, and also taking on the load of ensuring that their kids are okay as well and supporting their kids through them, so when we think of the gravity of that, I think it's pretty huge. So it's easy to see, especially, all the different personalities. Each have their own triggers as well as their own needs, and now, again, there's a painful scenario already at the heart of it all. It can be really tricky, really really tricky, and so that's where I come in is to help people navigate all of that, identify those pieces, identify. I like to look to work really to make it as easy as possible and go after the low hanging fruit and also start with what are the strengths that are already there, right? What are they already? The opportunities that exist, and then just build on that.
Speaker 1:And Maria. I'm sorry to, but yeah, might those be. What might the strengths be? What kind of things do you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, for example, maybe the parent already has a really great relationship with the kids. So that means it's going to remove a lot of layers of those difficult conversations and things like that. They, since they already have a strong relationship established and they already have great communication established, the kids are going to be more open when their parents are discussing things with them, whether it's asking questions or whether it's introducing new ideas to them. They're going to feel more secure. So that is going to cause, that is going to take care of some of their possibly fears and anxiety. And it's like, oh if, if this parent is telling me that that's going to be okay, they, I can trust them. We've already been through some things. I know that it's going to be okay, right, so it just relieves some of some of those challenges for the kids. That's one example.
Speaker 3:Sometimes in a blended family it's like, well, the kids get along really well with a new person and so that's great. And that doesn't mean that there aren't challenges or even potential challenges coming. That isn't useful to take some time to explore and kind of look forwards together about right, because it's, I think, of these opportunities. It's an opportunity to create a new foundation for this evolving family unit and certainly right, like we can already imagine. I mean there's graduations from different like maybe it's elementary school, but maybe it's middle school, but maybe it's high school and then eventually college, and there's just these new stages of life that come with their own unique needs and things, and so, as you can imagine, it's just useful to explore that and really have a clear idea of what the goals are and also what may be challenging or what might be difficult. Maybe it's specific family members, maybe it's circumstantial, maybe it's just like a tricky dynamic. Who knows, like one of the parents has been struggling with substance abuse, perhaps you know, it just really looks very unique and different in each situation, but certainly things come right.
Speaker 3:Complexities happen and as kids grow up too and they start to become more autonomous and develop their own ideas, sometimes that could possibly come down the pike as well and kind of influence things. And so helping families to really set themselves up for success by having looked at the whole picture and a lot of times too, one that is a really common one that comes up is challenges was getting on the same page with parents, so specifically with biological parent has certain ideas about discipline and or child rearing and or what the rules look like in the home. And the new step parent might have a different idea and they don't even realize sometimes that they're not on the same page about these things and certainly that can create a lot of upheaval. But getting all of that cleared away and getting on the same page and having maybe the difficult conversations and starting that process can clear a lot of that up for sure. And again, when it comes to kids, having their adults in their, in their immediate world being on the same page, it's such a huge relief for them, even when it seems like they're not getting the answer that they want and it seems like they're really upset about it. They need that sense of security because it actually helps them to know okay, it's going to be okay, there is a safe container here. I know that that's a different thing.
Speaker 3:I don't often work as much with parents having to do with the ex-partner getting on the same page, Although of course, ideally if all of the caretakers and adults who are spending time with the kids can get on the same page and all be involved and have these conversations together.
Speaker 3:That's, of course, ideal. It doesn't always happen. It isn't always possible for a variety of different reasons, of course, addressing even the inconsistencies family to family or home to home, if it is looking different. There are ways to do that without being disrespectful to the other parent, without speaking negatively about them, and still being able to convey your values and your morals to your children and still be able to have those conversations and explore together and set them up for how to be able to be in alignment with themselves when they're out and about in the real world, which I believe truly is probably for all parents, whether they're bio-parents or not, being able to basically start to become a mentor to our kids, because so often we're not with them, whether they're in daycare, whether they're in school, whether they're in their professional career, like we, just pretty much since the time they're born, we're basically setting them up for how to be able to be on their own in the real world and make good decisions. So, yeah, all of that.
Speaker 1:I'm curious about, just on a practical level, the kind of situations that would cause somebody to want to reach out to you, Like somebody. Is it usually new step-parents who are wanting just guidance as they acclimate into the new family and get to know the kid, or is it sometimes so? Is it individuals, or is it step-parents with their partners? You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a great question and certainly I've worked with both. I've worked with folks in a couple situation. I do advise that people work one-on-one because then we can get really, really clear. And also then what I love to do is set my clients up to have agency that the work we're doing together. I'm there to help them work through any I don't know, to manage their expectations, to work through limiting beliefs or stories that they may have made up that perhaps are just getting in the way and keeping them stuck from where they'd like to go.
Speaker 3:But really and of course you know skills and tools and strategies and all of that but really when they arrive and they are themselves making steps and initiating things within their family dynamic to create those changes, I just feel like that's so empowering. And then it doesn't create the sense of like, oh well, of course, like, yeah, you need this person to come help you because you can't do it on your own. Because my hope for them is that they're able to, through our work together, they're just going to feel really confident that, no matter what comes their way, they're already going to know how it's best to handle that for themselves and have everything they need in their back pocket to pull out and utilize in that moment and problem solve that situation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so much of what you're saying, maria, is resonating so strongly in my mind.
Speaker 2:I think many of our listeners know but maybe not, that I combined households with my now husband about two years ago and, as you're giving examples of things that are strengths or things that can cause conflict, the way that children might be feeling, I can think of specific examples that have happened over the last couple of years, like even since we told them we were dating, like just specific to my family, where each and everything that you were describing has come up at some point, from different ways of communicating, different ways of showing feelings and there being a misunderstanding about what certain behaviors from me towards my bonus daughters or from them towards me meant and how to actually interact and how to have conversations.
Speaker 2:And it's a constantly evolving process and it's so different than when you're with children from birth on, because you just inherently know those things, because you've watched every flick of their face since they were a baby. And it's restarting over with kids who likely have really strong opinions already and are really set in the way that they do things. And if your goal, which I hope most set parents out in the world have this goal of forming a strong bond with their new stepchildren. Like you have to make that effort and start over and like learn all of their, the way that they function, the way that they think, the way that they feel love. How can you make sure you're demonstrating it to them, not just the way you always have with your own children, but otherwise?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. You're so right, exactly. They have a completely new foundation from which they are starting New set of experiences, new set of, possibly, values and morals, or even just like the routine Right, like this is the way, if we've always done it, and it doesn't mean anything. They're, just, like you said, coming from a different perspective. So, understanding that, making that okay and, like you said, totally, kids from the different households who have now merged they can also be confused by this level, like, well, so, and so is doing this, like why is that? Okay, that's never been okay for us. And having the grace that, well, these kids are adjusting. And now these other kids are adjusting. They're going to have to adjust to each other. They're going to have to. They're going to be naturally asking a lot of questions.
Speaker 3:And, yes, together is where I think the strengths are, in creating or recreating, either creating a brand new or maybe recreating the paradigm of what does this now look like for all of us and what do we, what is particularly hard, what is maybe feels really nice, or what do we all enjoy the most and right, and just identifying that, at the very least already, I think is powerful, because now you know, now you know what are areas of opportunities for growth or possibly reassessing things or trying something new and what is just awesome. Hey, we're really strong in this. This is a win. This is going to be our go to for when things feel particularly difficult, or this could be a great way that we can all connect when we're feeling like there's some struggle, etc. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and one of the like when you were talking about the strengths. One of the strengths that I Think can exist that you didn't mention, just for folks out there, listening is sometimes it's not how the children are interacting with the adults, but if the children are forming strong bonds with each other. Yeah, that actually can help build the foundation too, because my bonus daughter gave a speech at our wedding and one of the things she said is that in the past couple of years things have been, there's been lots of chaos, and I'm paraphrasing so if she ever hears this sorry, but there's been lots of chaos, but I realized that if I didn't work through the chaos and Become okay with it, then I was gonna lose these people who became really important to me and so like it was this really awesome moment.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that you're completely right, Absolutely. Kids Banning together through the challenges and finding comfort in like, hey, we're all going through this experience together. Yeah, absolutely, I 100% agree. I mean, really, there's so many other Things too that could come up. A lot of times, right, people don't reach out until there's something that they're concerned about or something this top of mind going on that they're like we need to work through this. This feels really terrible, but the reality is, you know, it could look like anything.
Speaker 3:Kids behavior, when they don't know how to express themselves, oftentimes comes out sideways. Sometimes it can look Really concerning and we we tend to societally term it as bad behavior. The truth is it's not bad or good. It's just they're communicating that there's an issue and they're letting you know I don't know how to talk about this. So they're really giving us an opportunity as the adults, to either guide them or get the right supports in place to help them Process, etc, whatever may be needed, and so certainly, that's something that's pretty common that I, of course, can greatly help with.
Speaker 3:Often and it could be sometimes it may feel like the step parent is isolated, I'm sure, and you know what that's like too, because, as we discussed, this is really foreign and we're coming into it. I think before we started recording I referenced I'm an immigrant and I was kind of surprised having grown up in America, knowing the language really well, knowing the culture really well, that when I became a stepmom it was as if I was going through my immigration experience all over again and I was just kind of blown away to how many layers and levels that was accurate for me. And it can be really difficult. And I think that sometimes, even though it's great If there's support groups or support circles sometimes our loved ones even though they have the best of intentions for us, they just don't know how to support us through it. They either Been through it or their advice just isn't. It's very well intentioned, but a lot of times, unless they understand the intricacies and unless they know what can actually truly be helpful, they may give us advice. It's not very good, and then, when we try it and then it doesn't work, it can leave us feeling even more kind of devastated and isolated than before.
Speaker 3:And so I always love to advise people, you know, go ahead and find your supports, whoever they are, well before you think you need them, because then you at least know who to reach out to at the time when things are Getting really stressful or something occurs that you know just Goes from bad to worse, or something like that. Because the worst, the worst thing, I think, would be that if already in such a challenging situation, things become really terrible for whatever reason, and it could happen as quickly as overnight, and Now you're completely burnt out and stressed and now you have to create the time to do the research and then interview people and really find, oh, who's a good click? Because it's just you're running on fumes at that point.
Speaker 1:So, rather than getting yourself right, that's such good advice and I think Jenna probably give this advice to people who are going through divorces.
Speaker 2:That's exactly what I was thinking from right day one.
Speaker 1:I'm from the first time I meet someone, I'm telling them, like you're going to need to build a support system. You need a team and it needs to be pretty deep. You know it can't be one person, two people, it can't be just your lawyer and even therapist. You really need a team and you deserve it. You deserve to have that support. And um, I you know divorce, as you've referenced, maria. It is one of the most stressful things that somebody can go through in their life. But I'm realizing, as I'm listening to you, that becoming a step parent is another one of those really big, stressful events and it's really under recognized because there's not an event associated with it. It's not like and you wouldn't be thinking that you needed to build a team for that, but you really do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, and I actually my definition of a step parent is not the conventional one I think of.
Speaker 3:As long as soon as you're dating somebody with kids, even if you haven't met them yet and even if you don't plan to for a while, you're a step parent because you're on your way.
Speaker 3:You're on your way to being introduced into the emotional kind of burden of like hearing the things and your heart is aching for these kids that you may not have met and you eventually will have some sort of a caregiver kind of role, like you.
Speaker 3:Maybe you'll have to do some sort of a pickup, or you'll have to prepare a meal, or you'll have to helping with schoolwork or what have you right, and into whatever degree. Of course, that can increase infinitely, but yeah, the point is to your point absolutely, is that it is a very stressful event and understanding the, the significant, the what is the shift, yeah, yes, and just like I think the weight of what you're taking on yeah, I was going with it, including the emotional toll it takes on you personally, as we've identified, right, having that compassion, just understand it. Don't try to strong man or woman your way through it. You just got to suck it up because? Because that's not going to be helpful, especially at a time where all of that is going to be building up and it's going to make you probably more and more fragile.
Speaker 2:Right, it's just not sustainable, is the point and if you never need the support awesome, I think, your point about a shift or like the weight happening all at once. I think it's from my personal experience. It's very easy to be like an amuse this expression the fun uncle when you're just dating and you're not in any real way other than a fun evening together or dinner and are just finding your families. As soon as you take that step to beyond vacation or to have sleepovers or anything where the time you're spending together grows to include overnights and things like that, the shift happens. Because you're right it it's inevitable that both adults there end up caretaking all of the children there, because it just I think there are families that try to function other than that. I can't imagine trying to do that and raise children who see consistent, cohesive boundaries and a solid foundation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. But the good news is you don't have to feel like you have to get it all done at once. Oh yeah, it's a process, absolutely, and you get to have support along the way, and especially from people who have been there and know the tools and have the skills and they can. They can really shorten your learning curve and, more importantly, they can point you to exactly what you need when you need it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, and I know we were going to talk about tips, so I'm sorry to talk about that.
Speaker 1:I was just because I'm hearing them come through as organically, come through as being really kind to yourself, being patient with yourself and with the, with the situation, and know, like you're saying, that it's going to take time but doesn't have to happen all at once. You don't have to become perfect at this new role overnight. Right, learning, curve, right and so many variables. I'm thinking of a thousand different types of situations that could come and each one would be different. Like what? If you know, we've been talking about blending families, where there are two sets of kids may be coming together, but maybe there's not. Maybe there's a child who comes and goes from their parents' houses with different step-parents, you know, and that helps Absolutely. Yeah, lots of variations.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and I can't even be so in my case, for example, just as a quick reference. So I was a step-parent. My husband has one daughter who was, you know, they were splitting custody. She was living with her mom during the week because she lived 45 minutes away and we didn't want the burden of like splitting school and everything. And then, five years in, we found out she was being abused and neglected for all those years and over virtually overnight, it took two weeks for the full story to come out and then for us to do the court thing, but virtually overnight she came to live with us full-time and I basically became a mom overnight, but still holding space for like she will want a relationship with her bio mom at some point. Who knows what that will look like, who knows when, and even at times when it feels like she absolutely will not want one, she still may want one and I have to hold that space for that absent parent.
Speaker 3:Basically, there's a lot of emotions tied to, huge, huge, enormous emotions tied to. So my point is stories like this are very common. You just never know. You literally just never know, and overnight, literally things can change. So just to go over the tips really quickly because I want to make sure we at least leave the listeners with something tangible.
Speaker 3:So, number one go slow, because of course, relationships don't get built overnight. The second one is don't take anything that your stepchild says or does personally and that was having to do with the behavior piece I was talking about before. It's not personal to you, they're just, they're upset, they're going through a lot. It's very stressful and even if it feels like they are being mean or rude or disrespectful or what have you, it's not personal to you. They're just processing this really ginormous, very heavy, painful event that they're going through. It's hard for them. Number three be honest with your stepchild, but, of course, maintaining a healthy boundary. So I'm sure this is advice you give parents around divorce as well. Don't tell them everything, because kids we need to, as adults, shoulder the burden for them. We don't want to overload them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll say that we I mean from our situation. I think that we usually would veer towards tell them almost nothing, Right Of course, Like don't tell them anything about the proceeding. You don't have kids informed about it. Yes, there's between adults.
Speaker 3:Right, absolutely.
Speaker 1:If they have questions about what's going to happen or where am I going to live, they want to know that. Yeah, of course, but yeah, they don't need to know.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, yeah, yeah, exactly. Don't bring them into anything that feels unnecessarily heavy or complicated, and yeah, all of that, but where the advice about being honest? Just again, a quick example from my personal life. I was terrified to be a stepmom because I was convinced that there's some things in my own childhood that I wasn't thrilled with, how I was parented, and so I was like I don't want to make any of these same mistakes and I really tried to talk my husband out of dating me.
Speaker 3:I was like I will be your wing woman, you need a better role model for your kid. And he was like no, and, moreover, because you know what you didn't like, you probably have a better sense of how to be a better, much better parent you're giving yourself credit for. But when I took that on, I was like I just have to be honest Now. Of course, I didn't tell her all of that right away, but the point is, if she had questions, I was like, yeah, I really don't know. Or like, yeah, this is hard or oh, you're scared about that or you're worried about that me too. And just being able to relate like you would to any other person and relationship building, starting with respect. Also, it doesn't have to be so complicated. You don't have to jump in to try to be their parent. Just be a person, approach them honestly and openly, with good intentions, be genuinely curious and you don't need to front right. I think is the bottom line with that one.
Speaker 2:I think actually like being honest as much as you can about your own vulnerabilities, yeah, like hey, I'm really struggling with this. Can we have a conversation so that I understand better what's happening here? I want you to understand me, I want to understand you. I want to keep building our relationship.
Speaker 3:Totally. Yeah, there's so many times I remember I had these like very beautiful aspirations of what I wanted to share with my stepdaughter, but I was like I have no idea how I'm going to say this. It's just going to be a jumbled mess and like will any of it even make sense to her? But I'm so glad I still set the intention to try to explain, because she appreciated it and over time she did understand me better and even in those conversations and it was so, it was so interesting because I was so worried like I don't have the perfect words, but she didn't need the words.
Speaker 3:It was just the fact that I had set out the intention and had the courage to sit and try to explain whatever it was that was important to me that I try to relay about, like my character or values I hold or whatnot. She got it and she appreciated it and then it's interesting, like she ended up actually taking some of that on. There's no pressure for her to do so, but she just, she just chose to kind of like. She's like oh, that makes sense, and I think it opened up that opportunity for her to have the critical thinking piece where it was like, oh, I'd never been exposed to that way of thinking about it before, and so it just opened up her world to ways of navigating stuff around her.
Speaker 2:So I would add that even when you think they're not listening, when you do things like that, you might see, just like in any parenting right. You might not see the results right away, but kids are listening.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, they definitely are. And, and also to that point, things don't always stick right away, so multiple like touch points about the same topics, even though it might feel like oh my gosh, we're having the same conversation day in, day out, nonetheless it is worthwhile to do. And then so that was tip number three, the being honest.
Speaker 3:Tip number four is prioritizing connection over consequences. This is huge for step parents, because kids are often not ready, especially when they're not really really little. When the step parent is coming into the picture, they're just not ready to have anybody else come in and quote unquote rule the roost right Like they're, like what? You're not mom, you're not dad, and that's where a lot of that comes in. So, and I have some really useful tools of how to navigate those conversations too, because it's like you're right, I'm not and at the same time, we could discuss how we make decisions and how we treat each other when kind of going at it from that kind of perspective and just openly sharing and exploring together, rather than I told you not to do that, that's it. Now you're grounded, none of the lead, really trying to leave that to the biological parent as much as possible. And then number five is establish your support circle, and that was the one that we talked about before.
Speaker 2:So those are amazing tips. I think that's great.
Speaker 1:Maria, this is such a great topic and we really hope that you will come back and talk with us more about this and other work that you do, and maybe next time you can talk to us more about what you offer people like, how you work, what your services are, and we will definitely put a link to your website in the show notes so, if anybody's listening there, and check out Maria's website and learn more about the services that she offers. This was so helpful.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much. Yes, I would love to come back and I just want to throw it out there for anybody who may be feeling, oh my gosh, yes, like I would love some clarity with this. Please go ahead and don't be afraid to. On my website, you could just book a free call with me. It's completely free. It's called an assessment call. It's 45 minutes. People love it because it just gives them clarity on where they are and what next steps may be beneficial, and there's no obligation for anything more. So don't be afraid to use that as a resource if you are so inclined.
Speaker 2:That's an amazing offer. Maria, Thank you so much for being here with us. We're definitely going to keep talking.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thank you so much to you both. This has been a great conversation and I appreciate you guys just shedding a light on this very necessary topic and, as you said, it just doesn't always get as much attention as maybe it deserves, especially with the rates of how many people are in these situations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, bye for now.
Speaker 3:Bye.